Feb. 16, 2021

Chad Wolfgang Veinot

Chad Wolfgang Veinot

This week I unfriend animation wizard and dear friend Chad "Wolfgang" Veinot. Chad and I discuss chosen family, disappointing old friends, the origin of the Average Mango clan, Halloween hijinks, shitty Ironman and feisty bananas, haunted food and so much more!
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Be sure to check out Chad's art HERE and follow him on Instagram @chadveinot.ig
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Find all season 3 transcripts on the Friendless website HERE

Friendless is presented by the Saskatchewan Podcast Network, which is sponsored in part by Conexus Credit Union and Directwest. 


Transcript
James Avramenko:

Friendless is presented by the Saskatchewan Podcast Network, which is in part sponsored by Conexus and Directwest. Sweet babies Welcome back. Welcome to a brand new episode of friendless with me, your host James Avramenko. That's right. I am on a quest to have no Facebook friends. So I'm calling up every friend I've ever made, interviewing them about a relationship, and then unfriending them at the end of the interview. A long, seemingly endless, definitely deranged mission. But damn it. What else am I gonna do with my time? something productive? Get the fuck out of here. This week, I unfriend Chad Wolfgang Veinot. Chad is an artist based out of Calgary who wears a plethora of hats in the animation industry. We talk about chosen family, disappointing old friends. The origin of the average mango clan, Halloween high jinks, shitty Iron Man and feisty bananas, haunted food and so much more. Great interview and you're gonna love it. stick around to the end of the episode for updates on Friendless, but that is then this is now playback, soothing tones, my interview with Chad Veinot, here on Friday. So this week, I have a dear friend of mine from Calgary on the show and I've been really looking forward to chatting with you. This is this is my special guest Chad Wolfgang Veinot.

Chad Veinot:

Hello everyone. For the record and Wolfgang is actually not my middle name.

James Avramenko:

I love it is it was it. Uh, are there a lot of Chad Veinots on Facebook?

Chad Veinot:

No, no, it's, um, I my parents like my dad wanted to call me Wolfgang. Um, and once I found that out I was I was like, Oh man, I wish I was named Wolfgang. You know, so. So I just I switched it on Facebook to Wolfgang, but my middle name was actually Lawrence.

James Avramenko:

Lawrence Lawrence is just as good, but Wolfgang is like, maybe more exotic but

Chad Veinot:

Yeah. And then like people kind of called me Wolfie can imagine the life I would have.

James Avramenko:

I'd start calling you Amadeus. Get a whole chain of nicknames. Um, you know, it's funny actually, I i don't think i i don't think my parents had any, like, alternate names for me. I think maybe William was was being batted around. And I think I think so my mom and her best friend had this whole thing where when they had daughters, they were going to name their daughters after each other. So my mom's friend had her daughter first. She named her her child, Julie. And then my mom had had her daughter and didn't name her Nancy. And so I I wonder if maybe if I had been a girl if they would have named me Nancy as sort of like a consolation. Like, you got the second daughter, you know?

Chad Veinot:

Oh, I mean, Nancy Avramenko has a real ring to it.

James Avramenko:

I was gonna say I think that's why I think she heard it was like, Oh, no, I can't do that to a child. Avramenko mixed with anything else is already enough of a burden.

Chad Veinot:

I mean, because of your Instagram name. I for a long time, I really thought your name was average mango.

James Avramenko:

Can you imagine? Hello? My name is James average mango.

Chad Veinot:

Yeah, average mango. Just an average mango.

James Avramenko:

What would it what would the origins of that name be from like, I wonder where that where the where the average mangoes would hail from?

Chad Veinot:

Well see deep in there was a there was two factions of mango farmers. One that was the average mango and one was the

James Avramenko:

superb mangoes.

Chad Veinot:

Yes. And they were they dueled over it and the average man goes won.

James Avramenko:

That's why that's why but we kept the average moniker to keep ourselves humble. Right? Yeah.

Chad Veinot:

And that worked really well.

James Avramenko:

Oh, man. So Chad it has been it has been forever, but I was really lucky. Like it's been I mean, obviously I haven't really seen anyone for a year. But prior to that. We hadn't really seen each other since I came blundering into town that one summer to do that poetry festival. And I'm just like, I remained so grateful. Well, I want to talk about this a little bit, but I remain so grateful to to you because you are somebody who, no matter, no matter where I am, no matter what time it is, I can always count on you to be down. You know, like, I'll like, I'll send you a text and I'll be like, I'm gonna be in the city in two hours. What are you doing? And we, maybe we haven't talked in a year, and you'll be like, well, I'll meet you at the bar.

Chad Veinot:

I'm already there.

James Avramenko:

That is such a fine quality in a friend. That is something that I really treasure in a friend. So you know, right out the gate. I'm just gonna say thank you for always being down.

Chad Veinot:

I mean, I, I love a good party. And I love it. I love a good laugh. So I love hanging out with you.

James Avramenko:

And actually, and actually speaking of I'd love to hear sort of your side of it, because I feel like you're such a great storyteller on on this, but I'd love to hear your take on the story of how we met if you if you remember.

Chad Veinot:

Yeah, I mean, for the most part. It was, it was it was Halloween. And I think we were like we're heading to dickin shadow to my favorite pub. Yeah. And I think I'd met jenica and Paige came over first to my house for some pre gaming.

James Avramenko:

Yes, because I was working still. So I had to come meet up with everybody afterwards.

Chad Veinot:

Yeah, and I mean, I try. I think I was dressed as Tigger.

James Avramenko:

Yep, that sounds right.

Chad Veinot:

I don't remember. I don't remember what gennaker patriot dressed

James Avramenko:

Jennica was a banana.

Chad Veinot:

Oh right. How can I forget that?

James Avramenko:

That was the first year of her banana costume. And that was my first year as that was my first year as shitty Iron Man.

Chad Veinot:

Oh, yeah. You ruined the part of the story where I ran into Iron Man!

James Avramenko:

Shit I got too excited. So you're pregaming.

Chad Veinot:

Yeah, so and of course Jennica and Paige are just wonderful people. I was like, Who are these lovely ladies I instantly like was fell in love and was enamored and I was like, This is gonna be the best night. And then we we ended up having too much fun at my house. So we were and we didn't buy tickets, which you never you never not buy don't buy tickets on Halloween night, because you won't get in.

James Avramenko:

Well, because he's a big party at dickins too. Right?

Chad Veinot:

Well they have a capacity of like, 300 people. So

James Avramenko:

That feels big to me.

Chad Veinot:

I mean, it's Alberta so it's a excuse to party so every bar in the city is packed.

James Avramenko:

Yes.

Chad Veinot:

So yeah Anyways, we're like, I think that like it finally was like Natasha was like, let's go we're not gonna get in anywhere if you don't leave now. So then we move ahead, they're all in costume, which is the best part of one Halloween. And then sadly don't get in but like, as we as we think as we were, like, figure out what to do. Across the street. There's there's this there's this Iron Man jumbling over. I was like, Who is this bearded handsome man dressed as Iron Man?

James Avramenko:

And then Jennica jumped on me.

Chad Veinot:

Oh yeah, Jennica jumped on you and I was all like well

James Avramenko:

another mystery solved.

Chad Veinot:

like either that or she just really loves Iron Man. It doesn't matter.

James Avramenko:

It's funny cuz I was actually reeling literally seconds before I saw you guys. I was called out from across the street by a different Iron Man who had like a legitimate like, full body like cosplay costume. It had like, it was like actual armor and his mask would like hydraulically open and close. And they were like fuck you Ironman. Right like they were like shit talking me wearing that terrible foam muscle jumpsuit from Walmart right

Chad Veinot:

yeah, that's a bargain basement like Dude, it's Halloween get outta here. Yeah, go go like go to Comic Con like that's you can show like, I mean, I I dressed as Ironman one year but I but I did it like the Ironman where like where he was he just made the think that stuff is hard. So I just built a little thing and then had the like, the head to like the tank to the tank it I'm like that loves and then just just like did my hair it worked out pretty good. And like everyone loved it. It just had a little glowing light in my chest. Like, yeah, it worked out quite great. So I think I think we might have I might have said that we had bonded over being Ironman in different stages

James Avramenko:

Probably well, and then we ended up at we ended up at that. That downstairs was was it something an elephant or something like that?

Chad Veinot:

That's the part where I'm like, I don't remember where we ended up. So

James Avramenko:

we I remember we ended up at that pub. That we would always go. I this is how much I liked it is I can't for the life of me remember the name of it. But I remember

Chad Veinot:

The bear and kilt?

James Avramenko:

The bear and kilt! Joe Perry used to love it and he would always want to go there and I always was was fine with it even though like the beer sucked. But it was one of the bartenders there. He like super befriended us and was like super cool and and was like super, like friendly and always like traded places when we didn't sit in his section and all this stuff. And then the night, we got Jennica and I got engaged, we actually ended up going to the bear for like, you know, celebratory drinks. And we came in and he's like, hey, ha, you know, super friendly, super great. And, and then we're like, Yeah, we got engaged. And he like, he went like white, and turned away and went back to the bar and then left work

Chad Veinot:

Whoa.

James Avramenko:

And then never spoke to us again. Like whenever we came in, we went in probably about a half dozen more times after and he like, purposely avoided it was the weirdest fucking thing I had always

Chad Veinot:

That's so weird.

James Avramenko:

yeah, yeah. And I was always just like, What the fuck is your problem guy like, and I think I mean, I think he had a thing for Jennica is why but but

Chad Veinot:

Well, I mean, who doesn't?

James Avramenko:

Who doesn't! I'm not mad at him for it.

Chad Veinot:

Don't be fucking weird about it.

James Avramenko:

Exactly.

Chad Veinot:

Yeah, and I'm reminded of like, was there other banana costumes and there was like a, like,

James Avramenko:

there was an incident with an ice cream cone is what we were we were actually walking. This is how like a like a drunken story gets told is like, okay, but before but actually later, but then after that, but actually at the start of the night was so we were walking to the pub, and Jennica's like strutting down the, you know, in her brand new awesome banana costume, and some guys eating an ice cream cone. And he goes, banana split and sticks the ice cream cone on her forehead.And then keeps walking! And of course Jennica like little feisty fighter that she is she's like you mother fucker. So I'm Having to like hold my little banana wife back.

Chad Veinot:

as being the true Iron Man here, wherever you are, right?

James Avramenko:

Had to keep the peace right, but yeah, but I just didn't want to, you know, I just didn't want to get a fight with some asshole, you know, and I you know, I looking back. I feel like we should have given him more shit than we did. But that was just so like, yeah, it's it's bullshit. And like, fuck that guy. And I hope he's listening to this and I hope he knows what an asshole he is. But but at the same time to just in the moment, I was like, I don't I don't want to fight. I don't know anyone here. I don't want to get punched. I'm a coward.

Chad Veinot:

Yes. Oh, yeah. I'm right with you. I like I'm the mediator till. Yeah. And I would have tried to talk everyone down out of fighting. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, well, this must be another banana Halloween story that I'm remembering. But I remember with Nick. And I think it might have also been at the bear and kilt, but there was, there was like some farty banana dude that was going around, like, crop dusting everyone. And like, Nick was getting really, really mad, and we'd like we'd come up with nicknames for him. Like, like, I can't remember all of them. It was really funny, like stinky banana stuff. And it was just like, and I just reminded of this, this stinky banana.

James Avramenko:

Oh, my God, I love it. So so we obviously you know, we hit it off that night and we keep became what I feel like on my side. I felt like fast friends. You introduced me to use me to the greatest. Like how to leave a conversation. Kind of uncertainly line where you were like, it's the line about like, You know what? I don't care what they have to say about you. I think you're cool.

Chad Veinot:

Yeah, that's a it's a it's my it's my favorite joke. I say it to everyone I love. But it's I don't care what anyone says about you. You're all right.

James Avramenko:

That's classic. Love it. Especially because it's like it's one of those like things. Wait,

Chad Veinot:

yeah. Oh, no. Wait a minute, just all right.

James Avramenko:

But, but so so you in your, in your sort of in your in your in your day job. You have a fascinating job and I'd really love to hear a lot about it because you're about to start a new project. Is that right?

Chad Veinot:

starting a new project. Yeah,

James Avramenko:

so so you are a animator, Illustrator, artists extraordinary. You do all kinds of incredible visual art. And I'm wondering if you could maybe talk a little bit about, about the work you do. And then and then yeah, and then as much about this project as you're sort of wanting to, you know, hype people up, boy.

Chad Veinot:

Yeah, for sure. Um, yeah, I'm a like a modeler texture lighter. Surface artist and cinematographer.

James Avramenko:

Fuck.

Chad Veinot:

So that's, that's what I've done. And so I started off at a school, I went to like a uncredited like school, like vocational college. So I came up with almost no experience, but like, landed a job getting working on a show called Raven Tales. Okay, which is, which is here, which is Haida folklore. Which is really awesome. And we did that for 26 episodes of that. And that was about the first five years of my career.

James Avramenko:

Wow.

Chad Veinot:

And then we switched to movies. So we did a couple of wizards, Christmas movies. We did Raven Tales, final movie to send off a series, we did a tales. So the first people movie, which is a bunch of other First Nations, people, stories across Canada, which is really, really awesome to work with, to learn, like, the culture is so fascinating. And it's so it's so sad soso much is lost. Yeah. So it's cool to be able to hear some of these stories, these campfire stories, these like stories, like wisdom stories. So to learn a little more about that was really great.

James Avramenko:

Is there a way to see these like, is there somewhere to watch them?

Chad Veinot:

Raven tales is actually curriculum.

James Avramenko:

Oh, wow.

Chad Veinot:

So yeah, I mean, yeah, so it's actually taught in schools. Leah's kids came home talking about it. And he's like, do you know that your uncle Chad works on that? And they were like whoa. So it was it was a really cool, like, full circle moment? Because Yeah, when I was working on it when I first met her, and then her kids were being taught it was really neat. Yeah. So you can see you can? It's curriculum, but you'd also buy it, I think somewhere. And then on amazon prime, you can watch the raven tales movie.

James Avramenko:

Oh, awesome. So I'll find all the links. I'll put it on there. I'll put it all in the show notes and stuff. That's super cool.

Chad Veinot:

Yeah. And I mean, we're, and yeah, so after that, I think I I just wrapped up like a few months ago, a month ago, my eighth movie with the studio, called the troll of Belle Lake, which is my favorite one so far. I think it's a beautiful story. And it's really great. I can't wait for hopefully we'll see it. Yeah, so and, and I just now that brings us to now I guess.

James Avramenko:

Yeah. Yeah.

Chad Veinot:

So I got funding to do a pilot for a TV show called ghost toast.

James Avramenko:

Amazing. It's based on your like, your, your, like Inktober drawings and stuff?

Chad Veinot:

It's I mean, it's based off of its I did a draw, like a quick drawing of ghost toast. That was just an idea. I had just like popped in my head. And then I developed it fully into like, a full thing. So yeah, like that's so like those like quick drying things are just exercises and I never really thought like much of them. Some of them turned out to be great pieces of art. Some of them are just you know, fun. Like, yeah, this one this was like it was a cool idea. And then I and then I basically added it to like, like the classic movie monsters like the hammer horror, universal monsters mixed with like food, basically. So the food characters, but their movie monsters.

James Avramenko:

Oh my god. Are there any other characters you can talk about? Or do you?

Chad Veinot:

Oh, yeah, I can. Yeah, sure. I mean, I'm gonna be posting stuff soon about it. Anyway, so Um, so the next character is Eggula. So he's obviously an egg that's Dracula.

James Avramenko:

What's his origin? How did he become an Eggula?

Chad Veinot:

That is? That is not to be decided.

James Avramenko:

Okay, okay, cool. Okay. Yeah.

Chad Veinot:

And then there's his assistant, which is Qusimato. Who's a tomato, Qusimato.

James Avramenko:

And what's the like? is there is there sort of like a premise like a sort of a week to week thread, like, what why are we like, what's, what are their adventures?

Chad Veinot:

I mean, like, the first the first one is like kind of set up, but like, ghost toast is kind of like the scamp. Like, he's always sort of a he's a troublemaker. Like he's a lead but like, and like, so like Eggula is a scientists. So he's sort of like in there and they discovered this castle. And then yeah, and then they just have adventures in there a lot there were like in the world there's things like haunted items and all that kind of like supernatural fun stuff.

James Avramenko:

That's amazing. And so it's gonna be it's gonna be like a full fledged you said you've got the pilot? Is it? Is it being optioned for like a full fledged TV show?

Chad Veinot:

I mean, the hopes were to be is to be a whole option for a TV show. But it's a proof of concept. Right? So it's a yeah. And then I there's two other characters. One is Woffle, who's the waffle? That is a wolf werewolf, and

James Avramenko:

I already like him the most.

Chad Veinot:

He's the best. And then the last character is Mumfin, who is a muffin that is a mummy.

James Avramenko:

Oh my god, I'm so excited for this. Man. So So this so this pilot that you're working on? Is it? Are you hooked up with a like so you I know you were saying you you work through a studio is

Chad Veinot:

It's my studio. It's a like I worked for I used to work for companies actually called New Machine and they work out they they moved to be Vancouver base A while ago. So I started off the Calgary version of it called Squidbrain.

James Avramenko:

Okay, that that that that's the last thing we I want to talk to you about here. Actually. The other thing I want to bring up What? What is wrong with you? With with how much you like octopus, octopi.

Chad Veinot:

they're the most fascinating creatures. They're like true aliens. They, yeah, they evolve such amazing. I mean, amazingly, outside of like, what? Oops, just tore my earphones off. I was so excited. Like, they just like, I just I'm just fascinated by them. I think they're great, amazing creatures like, and like, evolving from like, they're like mollusks. So like, just like, and I don't know, I just I'm just very fascinated and like the idea of like, that kind of intelligence. But it's so alien to us.

James Avramenko:

Yeah,

Chad Veinot:

I just I just I mean, I just think they're very, very cool creatures.

James Avramenko:

I think that's the thing for me is that I think, um, I think like, I don't how do I say this? I respect them. I don't like them though.

Chad Veinot:

I think I think octopuses like or like are cute. I think they're like, giant collosal squid and stuff are terrifying.

James Avramenko:

Yeah, this is the thing. tentacles man. tentacles. I just don't like anything tentacled you know?

Chad Veinot:

I mean, I find it I find that that like, learning about like, how they use them is pretty fascinating.

James Avramenko:

That's true. That's super true. Especially how they like open jars and stuff. That's pretty cool.

Chad Veinot:

Yeah. Well, I mean, like they feel and taste and touch with them. And yeah, and each one of their like they have their brain is kind of in each of their arms. So like, so like, they're like they don't have like a central brain. Their whole body is kind of just like through a computer. Like, really? Like an evolved I mean, I just think they're really neat anyways, yeah.

James Avramenko:

I also just like anything, anything with a beak? I just don't like beaks. I don't like the idea of like,

Chad Veinot:

I also love birds too so

James Avramenko:

Okay so we're literally the polar opposite.

Chad Veinot:

They're dinosaurs, they're literally dinosaurs are so cool.

James Avramenko:

I know. That's why I hate them. They had their chance. But, but to think about an octopus, I always imagine like, how horrific that death would be. If you're being like, encircled by these tentacles, and it's squeezing you and pulling you in. And you're being pulled towards this awful little beak in the center of this jelly mass.

Chad Veinot:

oh, you're like as a human like, that's not going to be our death.

James Avramenko:

You never knoow!

Chad Veinot:

Like they there's no one else is big enough. Well, maybe it's like some sort of prehistoric giant octopus came alive. Not in a realistic format, not just a horror movie.

James Avramenko:

Maybe that's what's coming through the the climate crisis that we're causing. Maybe that's what's gonna awaken from the melting of the ice caps.

Chad Veinot:

No, no. I mean, like, there is a chance that like, once we destroy the like, once we're no longer here that octopuses can become the Central Intelligence.

James Avramenko:

Right? That's Yeah, that's the thing is that they're just biding their time. Maybe that's why I don't like them. I don't trust them. I know that they're just biding their time,

Chad Veinot:

Well they're lonely creatures and stuff like that, except for we've recently seen them gathering so there's that there's something

James Avramenko:

What are they plotting?

Chad Veinot:

Maybe they're just they're just maybe it's a support group for for octopuses.

James Avramenko:

They're all just really lonely.

Chad Veinot:

Like I've been alone for so long for millions of years. They've finally learned to talk about their feelings.

James Avramenko:

I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna open up Conexus credit union is all about their members, improving their financial well being drives everything they do. And that's not something they say. That's something I say it's a promise that's delivered by over 900 employees across Saskatchewan, their employees are members too, and they've been there. So they're committed to making your money work for you. the banking industry needs to change, and connexus is changing it for everyone. Because Conexus cares, visit conexus.ca to learn more. So, you know, we've we've talked a little bit about, you know, you know, our friendship, and, and the things that that, you know, I observe in you as what I consider a good friend. And and, you know, we've talked about how we're friends, but I guess something that I'm always fascinated in hearing is is the answer, you know, my guess answer to the question of, how do you personally define friendship?

Chad Veinot:

Okay. I mean, this is a multi multi level thing, but I always consider friendship is chosen family. And like, and along with that comes a community of people that that person knows and other people so like, I think friendship is like community and family. And there's like, everyone, just like you were saying no to how like how long it's been. I mean, I'm always I always like, I'm like lasting friendships, you can pick up right where you left off. And I think it's weird and mean for you to hold someone accountable if they didn't keep in touch with you. Or you're like, things like everything got away from you. Like it doesn't it doesn't like negate your friendship. You're like, how dare you not talk to me? Because you were living your life for the last year.

James Avramenko:

You're four provinces away and you're not keeping me updated? Fuck you.

Chad Veinot:

You son of a bitch.

James Avramenko:

Yeah, I mean, what a great way of summing it up. I love that.

Chad Veinot:

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so. Yeah, I mean, the usual stuff. People that you laugh and cry with and all that kind of fun stuff. I can tell you what it's like. Some of my long lasting friendships and things that like people probably know about me. I think this is pretty funny stuff in here. If you've ever like, if you know me very, very well. We probably have a bazillion inside jokes.

James Avramenko:

Yeah, definitely.

Chad Veinot:

I've definitely drunkenly told you I love you. maybe made you cry. Most definitely. told you to follow your dreams. I have probably sung songs at you or with you. In my terrible, terrible voice, but thank goodness everyone that I have enough charisma to carry off badly sung tune.

James Avramenko:

You're wonderful. You're wonderful karaoke charisma.

Chad Veinot:

And I probably even started a project with you and not follow through.

James Avramenko:

There's been there's been at least for me, I know. I was gonna say I think there's been a couple nights where we've been like, Yes, let's do this. Yes. Oh, this is just like next morning nothing.

Chad Veinot:

We did we did. We did try a podcast thing which is all thanks to you.

James Avramenko:

I think we've got two episodes in.

Chad Veinot:

No I think we just recorded the one halfway through and we're like, yeah, this isn't working. This is like every other podcast talking about horror movies.

James Avramenko:

But you did you did expose me I can't for the life of me believe that I missed return to the living dead.

Chad Veinot:

One of the best horror movies ever made.

James Avramenko:

The movie is incredible. You mean the movie lied! I just I that that movie changed like changed my life. I fucking love that movie so much. Direct West is a proud partner of the Saskatchewan Podcast Network. Are you a business owner looking for new avenues to promote your business? direct West digital billboards are great opportunity to highlight a new product, new promotion, or anything else you'd like your customers to know about. You can get local expert marketing help for your business at directwest.com

Chad Veinot:

This is another. It's about the art of asking and telling yourself something that I'm really bad at. But I feel I mean, I guess you you saying you suck doesn't do well, but I think that you do it really well. You like you asked for stuff in a way that doesn't seem like, like James just asking for, for support and love, right? I mean, he's asking again, he wrote another poetry thing. Here's another, here's another cute picture of him. in a onesie, what are we gonna do with that?

James Avramenko:

What's the question?

Chad Veinot:

Oh, there's a question in there. Right?

James Avramenko:

What's the question?

Chad Veinot:

I mean, I just like, um, how do you? Like, how do you do it? Like, what do you how do you feel about? Like, how do you feel about that? Like, your persona? online? Yeah.

James Avramenko:

That's a, that's a really good question. Thanks for that. I mean, and thank you for, like, the observation and the, and the and the well like, I'd appreciate that, right. Because I think that, um, I mean, I'm constantly at odds with myself with like, what the fuck am I doing? Who the fuck even cares about this? Like, do I even care about this? What the fuck, you know, like, and so I think it really boils down to the whole, like, where I started was with, like, the daily poetry thing where I put, you know, I wrote a poem a day, and I put it up on a blog, and, and, you know, you go back and you read and like, especially the first like, 100, you know, 150 days are just fucking brutal, like, just fucking brutal. And, and lots of the days afterwards suck, too. But, but it's, it's about the like, it's just about the, the, the commitment to make something and put it in the world. And, and, you know, I've, how do I say this, it's like, it's like, if you want to, if you want to make something, then you're allowed to want people to want it. If that, if that makes sense, right? And, and so in terms of like, how do I ask, it's like, Well, fuck, man, I don't want to be at a desk job for the rest of my life. So how am I going to do that? Well, I don't have very many qualifications. I went to theater schools fucked up there. You know, so like, I'm gonna have to figure out a way to make this work. And, and the way you know, where you start, it's like you say about, you know, chosen family and community and stuff. It's, it's, it's where I hope that right now, people will want to support me, so that when I'm in a place, I can support them, you know, and, and, and likewise, I really like supporting people I really love. I love buying people's books and ebooks, and you know, I love doing that shit. And then, you know, hopefully they'll remember. And they'll remember and they'll pay me back.

Chad Veinot:

Cuz that's why I do it. I do it.

James Avramenko:

The payback. No, but it is a thing of like, it is a thing of like, I think that we, I think that we, you know, we talked lots about in the sort of, like the dialogue of you know, Twitter and internet and all this stuff. We talk a lot about like imposter syndrome. And we talked lots about like, valuing ourselves and self doubt and, and all these, you know, this this self loathing that exists in the world and and, and it's like, Man, you just got to, like, just say, fuck it, you know, fuck it, and just, like, just just do the thing, and it's probably gonna suck, but do it anyway, and then ask somebody to pay you for it. Because, I mean, some fucking asshole. Is is gonna do it. So why? Why isn't it you? You know, somebody's gonna do it. You might as well be the one who gets paid for it. I don't know. I don't know. I don't really have a good answer for it. It's just one of those like, fuck it. Why not? Like, we're all we're all just, we're all just hurtling on this rock. You know, we're just like, We're trapped on this rock that's plummeting through eternity. And at some point, we'll all drop dead for some unknown reason.

Chad Veinot:

We're a blip on a tiny little rock.

James Avramenko:

yeah. So it's like, fuck it, we worry about the dumbest things and then we let the even dumber things stop us from being happy. So like, why not just like, write a shitty poem and say, that's worth five bucks. What do you think is five bucks? Fuck it. I don't know. Does that help? I don't know.

Chad Veinot:

It's great. Yeah. It's something that I do definitely have a hard time with that I'd like I'm yeah that idea of selling myself at my art is I mean, I'd like I've always been a commercial artist. almost my whole career.

James Avramenko:

Yeah,

Chad Veinot:

so like, so I've always like worked on other people's visions and things like that. So

James Avramenko:

right. I it's funny. I find it. I mean, I don't find it surprising because I think every artist is an artist because at the root, they are looking for validation from somebody who they'll never get it from. But

Chad Veinot:

Or they just need to create I dunno but

James Avramenko:

Well, well. I mean, I think those go hand in hand, I'm not trying to psychoanalyze you, I'mliterally that's my blanket statement for all artists. But like, but but I think what's surprising to me is that, like, you are an immense talent and, and your art is beautiful, and fascinating. And really, like, it's both like, very inviting, but also very challenging. Like, I really love your style. And so, like, anything I can do to help push your art I'm going to do, right, because, like, I think you deserve to be supported for the work that you do. And, and you clearly, you know, have the ability and have the talent and have the skill. And the next thing is just to make sure people see it and, and, and know that you're worth paying for. Right. And I think that's the other element of it is that like, we're now in a in a society that doesn't we value money, but we don't value paying. If that if that makes any sense.

Chad Veinot:

We also like, we live in a like, the, like artists are sort of treated very badly.

James Avramenko:

Oh, yeah. We're Like, you know, I mean, I hate using class language. But like, if if we are a class, we're below a class you know, like, like,

Chad Veinot:

it is the artists narrative the struggling artist is trying to make it do the thing really. You know, and then like, and, and valuing only say fine arts over commercial art, or, you know, like, not valuing the art of creation or gathering the like, what it what it does for the person and all that kind of stuff. It's just like, you either have and Fine Arts, I won't. I won't get too into it, but like, you know, it's not like, I was told that I in high school that cartoons weren't valid art. By my art teacher, right. I mean, like, shows him I made a career out of it. But

James Avramenko:

yeah, also that person can go fuck them. S

Chad Veinot:

o yeah, really, though,

James Avramenko:

like, you know, I think the only difference, I think the only difference between pop art and fine art is that fine art is made by people who are already dead. And so someone else gets to profit off of it, you know, like, like, like, we don't value pop art, because pop art means you're paying a living artist. Whereas Fine Art means some curator or some bow tied, fucking boring ass critic who smells like mothballs and drinks fucking terrible ass wine. And like, pretends he's better than you. They are the ones who get to profit off of some dead artists work, you know, and so like, no fine art can can eat my fucking, you know? I can't imagine anybody had an easy year. And I was actually just reading earlier about how the quarantine has essentially destroyed, like, certain sort of tiers of friendship in terms of like, casual acquaintances and like, after work friends and stuff like that. And so I think that we're as a society having to reevaluate what it means to be a friend and what it means to to have connection to people. And and I guess what I'm curious about, you know, from your standing in your perspective, what do you think it's gonna take to be a good friend in 2021? And going into the future?

Chad Veinot:

I mean, I don't think I'm going to change much about I mean, I think that we're all taking account into what like a real friendships are and what acquaintances are.

James Avramenko:

Sure.

Chad Veinot:

And I mean, like, I, I mean, I think that like, empathy is the best tool for friendship. And they were like, like, that's the same thing as I was, I mentioned this earlier, that we're that I see these posts over and over again. And I like I really hate it. It's just sort of this sort of thing where you're like, it takes two seconds to respond to an email to like, you only true friends will like, respond fast and only true for right. Like, only only good friends will make sure they check in every day. And you'll and you're like, so you're putting all the accountability on your other friends. Are you doing the same thing and you're also like, it's it's weird and creepy, and you have no idea what anyone's going through. You have no idea what's happening, no idea what their executive function how their executive function works, whether or not they they've written five messages to you and not responded. whether they've edited it to change it, or simply thought they they had messaged you and forgot because because life

James Avramenko:

Yep, exactly.

Chad Veinot:

So I mean, I think that like, I think that like, we need to stop putting and like, and everything. And all this stuff is online too. So it's like it's stupid that like we need to stop putting Putting all of our friendship online and just be friends that we need to be friends.

James Avramenko:

Yeah.

Chad Veinot:

Right. It's like

James Avramenko:

fuck, I love that. Yeah,

Chad Veinot:

I mean, like, and all social media is different in like, Facebook is now just my, my, my bubble of politics of like minded baby angels that all have the same politics as me. Yeah. Yeah, it's I mean, it's like it's like, Okay, cool. I suppose the thing everyone's mad at it too. So why is this a thing? Oh yeah. Because Because the other 80% of people don't agree with Sure. You know,

James Avramenko:

it is weird. It is weird to like, like, you know, cuz so many people talk about like the cesspool of Facebook and they talk about how toxic it is. And I'm like, I mean, if I'm being completely honest, I don't see it. But it's because it's because my friend group like my friend list is so curated. Like I don't I don't keep people like that on my friend list. So I don't see it. Right.

Chad Veinot:

Yeah, and then the opposite is like Instagram is, is curated falsehood of life. Um, yeah. And then I think, and then Tick Tock to me feels the most I mean, I felt I felt like an old man being like, what tic tocs stupid. I recently had been like, delving into it for art purposes, because like, a lot of cool stuff is getting traction, especially a lot of animated stuff. And like, the thing about that, is that it like it is more just a slice of humanity than anything else, including, like, the goods the bads. It's really, it's the weird, it seems, it seems more like, like the community there would actually like, reach out and help someone as opposed to like, Instagram doesn't it just feels like the sort of this is my curated life. How wonderful it is. I would never show you. I would never show you how bad it is.

James Avramenko:

Yeah, it's it's very it's moved. Right? Because it's like, it's what Facebook started as. And then it's what it when it when Facebook lost. Its, you know, Mojo, it became Instagram. And then when Instagram lost his Mojo and got kind of saturated with marketing, that's now moved to it tik tok. And so, you know, I mean, I'm not gonna be like tic tocs, the most authentic community because it's like, it's still social media. It's still contrived. It's still controlled. It's still weird,

Chad Veinot:

Still algorithms to

James Avramenko:

Yeah, right, exactly. And you're still, you know, you're still seeing the prettiest people at the top of the list and all that kind of stuff. And, and so it's like, it's still weird, but like, there is something really exciting about a new platform that takes off, right? When it's like not Google Plus.

Chad Veinot:

Poor Google is never able to saturate this market. They'll have to this fall back on their other billions of dollars,

James Avramenko:

right? That GIF of like, you know, wiping your eyes with dollar bills, right, but, but it is, you know, it is it's definitely like, it's an exciting platform, and it's and it's amazing what it's doing for artists like the way it's helping, you know, musicians and animators just go ballistically viral, right? Like, it's really cool. Chad, man, we could fucking Oh, you know, we could just talk and talk and talk. I just, it's the thing that I just like, I treasure about you. And it's you know, and it's so sometimes I get nervous before these interviews,

Chad Veinot:

right? I was I was like, dead nervous. I was like, That was easy. It was like, it's just talking to my buddy. And that's just because we have such a good rapport. I felt like it just went.

James Avramenko:

That's exactly it. Well, and that's just it. And that's the thing of it is that it's like, you know, I'll get nervous and I'll be like, Oh, no, what if they like, what if they don't like me anymore? What if all those things of like, what if it wasn't you know, what if it was just me who liked them and all those things, and then you know, and then we get talking and suddenly an hours passed? And it's like, it's just magic You know? And I just I'm, I'm just so I'm just so grateful for you, Chad. I'm so grateful we met and I'm so grateful that I get to call you a friend and and I just wish all the best for you. I'm so excited for this project that you're working on. I just I think it's fucking amazing. And I can't wait for it to just blow up and take over the world. But we do. Unfortunately. We have one thing we have to do before we stop recording. So I'm pulling up your Facebook. Here we go.

Chad Veinot:

Here it goes.

James Avramenko:

Chad Wolfgang Veinot.

Chad Veinot:

Should I does it say anything weird.

James Avramenko:

It doesn't it just it just the little tiny icon changes if you refresh are you ready, we're no longer Facebook friends.

Chad Veinot:

Okay, goodbye, old friends. So long. Farewell. Oh

James Avramenko:

my god, I need to get the licensing for that Spice Girls song. That's what I've got to do. And that's it. Thanks once more Chad for coming on the show. I love you, buddy, and I'm dreaming of the day we can hug again. Gonna be a good day, four years from now. If you liked the show, don't forget to rate and review it on Apple podcast or wherever you listen, it goes so far in helping grow awareness of friendliness and dammit, it's just a nice thing to do. So five stars or bust baby. Don't forget to sign up for the monthly newsletter. I'm making it as unobtrusive as possible just a once a month thing. You'll get ratings and books I've read that month, articles, suggestions, and exclusive writing that you won't find anywhere else. Or, you know, at least until I get off my ass and make another ebook or whatever. But those didn't sell very well. So don't worry, it'll be a while. Don't forget to grab a copy of butthead on Amazon, some friends and picked it up. And so far, I've had feedback that has ranged from positive to silent. So either that's a very good sign, or my friends don't want to hurt my feelings. Either way, I appreciate the support. You'll find the link for all of these things. Plus also a lot of Chad's projects in the show notes included with this episode. You can also find transcripts of all of season three through the show notes or on the website. Just check out friendlesspod.com. Thanks to verybody who sent me some fun emes this week, it helped a on. Please keep them coming. ebruary is seemingly never nding. And I'm still going with his play a day challenge. So end it my way on social media t friendlesspod. But that is it for me. So I'll just say I love ou. And I hope you have as gre t a week as you deserve. Bu as always, that is then thi is now. So for now. Take car of yourself. And I'll see you ext time. Fun and safety y